"...tidings of Jesus, redemption and release. "
So, here is a summary of yesterday's sermon, slightly adapted to my own feelings on the subject of evangelism. Let me know what your thoughts are.
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Part of how I've been raised and part of my personality (the more Cancer-ish side, definitly not the Leo-side. Yay for being on the cusp of two very different Zodiac signs... ;P) affects how I deal with evangelism and bringing Christ to others. My church has never been terribly involved in missions trips or bringing in non-believers or even other Christians. I've been raised, and strongly believe that someone will only truly convert if they want to do it themselves. Yes, I fully believe that they need help and guidance, but they should be doing it for God and for themselves. Not for anyone else.
Yesterday, my pastor said (this is almost word-for-word, but my memory isn't *that* great) "Being a Christian is between you and God, part of why we have never demanded confessions of sins. If someone is interested, all you can really do is hand them a Bible and tell them to read. If they have questions, pray. When the answers come, listen. You can not get inbetween them and God."
Yes, we can help others find God, but ultimately it is they who have to do the finding. They have to be the one's truly seeking. God wants them to do the searching. He wants them to truly want him so badly that they will put forth the effort to actually sit down and read His word and seek for the answers in that. Finding a church and a someone of the clergy is a great help. I know I personally would not trust myself to teach someone the details and even some of the stronger points of Christianity. I, too, am just learning. I, too, should follow my own advice and read the Bible. (Something I am not to proud to admit is that I really haven't read all that much of the Bible...)
Basically, my whole thoughts and feelings on evangelism and missions are that when it comes down to it, the conversion is solely between God and that person. The best place for the Christian is to be the good example through faith and works. Hand them the Bible, offer them prayer, point them towards a church or a variety of churches, and allow them to make the journey with God and God alone. Yes the support is good, but it should just be that, support. If you stay between God and the individual, they cannot truly find and see God in all His glory, only through the veil that you create.
Qui êtes-vous ?
- Jane
- How does one define a person? By the things they do? The clothes they wear? The people they hang out with? Who their family is? Where they went to school? What religion they are? What race they are? The thoughts in their head? The feelings in their heart? Or maybe not at all...
15 commentaires:
not critiquing, but some other thoughts to consider:
Is that the example we see in the Apostles? (Granting that we all are not necessarily apostles).
Keeping Matt 28:18ff, Acts, and the Epistles in mind, are you sure the Community of Saints plays such a small role in evangelism/conversions?
What about 1 John 1:7?
Just some other things to consider.
Love you tons, Jane.
And thank you for the Christmas card. It's beautiful.
Sorry I've been so terrible at keeping in touch.
Jer- A thought... The difference between our time and the apostles time; there wasn't a printed Bible they could hand out and let others read. And even once they did gather together a Bible and start creating copies, the monks weren't writing them out for the common man. Since the Germans put together a printing press and made the Bible the first thing they printed, we now are able to distribute the Bible much more easily. Especially with all the new translations that they are making in different languages (they just printed the New Testament in I forget the name of the Bible but it's the language of the ancestors of the slaves living out on some island off the east coast). Plus with all of the time that has passed (the apostles were mostly all people who knew Jesus himself or learned of him from a first-hand account) word of mouth skews a lot. Speed of communication and amount of information readily available to us is another huge difference between how the apostles taught and my thoughts on the subject.
Just throwin' some things out there. Love and miss ya, brother!
soo... what's your feeling on serviace oriented missions? i get your'e not really evangalistic.. but the Bible tells us "ture religion is this to care for orphans and widows..." we are supposed to care for those around us who are in need of help... my trip to mexico 2 years ago wan't outright evangalism... we went down there to serve.. to love the children and better where they were living.. but in doing so we were tellign them (with actions if not always with words...) .. we are here to love you becasue God loves you, put your faith in Him..... the focus behind the trip wasn't sitting them down andlecturing them on scripture...it was to love them... the same is true with christian who headed south to help out after katrina... it wasn't outright evangalism, but a form or evangalism that comes about as a result of lovign God's children who are in need....
I'm cool with going out and helping. It's the going out and lecturing and trying to force all others to conform. Things like the missionaries to Central America and California way back at the beginning of this country frustrate me. Their coming in to a society and telling the people, "This is the true religion. You must believe it or else!" And I know I haven't done much studying of the old missionaries, but that is how it has always come across to me. Your mission trips are exactly how I would evangelise. Go out and do good and show your faith through your works. If that interests someone, go ahead and talk, converse, dialogue with them about Christianity. Don't just go down there and lecture and preach. Being preachy tends to turn people off to most anything.
First off, this is one of my favorite quotes and thoughts on the subject: "Preach the Gospel--if necessary, use words" (St. Francis).
However, I don't think this means we shouldn't be talking about God or sharing the gospel--we're excited about swing dancing, so we talk about it all the time, and our enthusisiam about God should spill over into everyday life in the same way. "And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" (Romans 10:14). Throwing a Bible at someone is not the same as engaging in his life. Swing dancing again: if I'm really hoping someone will become a dancer, I don't just give them a video and give them a list of local venues. I'd probably give them a lesson in the basics, personally invite them to come dancing, and if they come out, introduce them to the others and try to get them involved in the community to some degree. Evangelism works in a similar way. Granted, you can't convert someone--whether a person comes to Christ or not is between them and God, and you can't force it, nor should you try. But the things you're passionate about you naturally share with others, and if what the Bible says is true, the stakes are much higher than simply having fun with a dance or not.
That said, the fire and brimstone people (i.e. Diag preachers) who yell at everyone they meet, "You're going to hell!" drive me crazy. That's not loving, and it may not even be accurate (how do they know? they've certainly yelled at me). Even types who are fond of passing out tracts annoy me.
One more thought: "The difference between our time and the apostles time; there wasn't a printed Bible they could hand out and let others read."
Where in the Bible does it say that the reading of Scripture supersedes all else? It's a basis, but many modern Protestants tend to put the Bible on a pedestal--some from other traditions would even say we have a tendency to idolize it. The Bible is important, but there are also other sources that are wise to give authority to, other sources that we give de facto authority to. John Stackhouse explains this as the Postmodern Tetraletic: Scripture, tradition, experience, and reason--the idea is to have a conversation between all four.
mmm.... good thoughts Dawn :)
Sounds like much of the evangelism training/activities from my church. More oriented towards service.
We keep that quote from St. Francis in our Fellowship room.
Relationships. That's where it starts.
I will take up issue with the tracts though. Definitely NOT my favorite way of sharing, but the conversations that initiates can be... amazing.
Think of it like going out and dancing on the street to promote interest in swing dancing.
Sadly, most are turned off more by awful preconceived notions of Christians and the stereotype of those hand out tracts. As for us, we use them first and foremost for attention-getters to start conversations. Those we talk with rarely end up reading them till after the fact.
The few who actually will stick around for conversation (and sometimes followup over coffe or beer) often end up joining the ranks.
And there's nothing like closing a conversation with a complete stranger who's not yet a Christian with prayer and tears.
Great memories....
and Jane.... not sure where the first response came from. I didn't mean to imply passing out copies of the Bible as evangelism. That doesn't even come to mind when I think evangelism. Rarely effective. And far from the picture we get in Scriptures. My questions were more intended to direct us toward answers more like Dawn's response, from looking at the pictures painted in Scripture.
St. Francis's way tends to work a lot better. Much more like the Apostles and Jesus. Though they also did some preaching.
We do hand out Bibles occasionally, but only if the person is interested in follow-up to talk more and they want one.
The idea of just handing out Bibles or "throwing Bibles" at people is not what I at all meant to convey. I agree with conversations and talking to Christianity about people, but only to those interested. I hate the Christians who stand out there and force tracts on people. On "Gideon Day" in Hillsdale I would avoid major exits and entrances like the plague to avoid getting yet another New Testament forced into my hands or having to turn down the old men. (damn the cute old men that smile and make you not want to say no!) I would never literally go out and hand people Bibles or tracts and force them into a conversation about Christ with me. I guess I just have a bit more of a laissez-faire aproach to evangelism. Maybe it's lack of self-esteem, maybe it's the manifestation of my shyness that I have been trying to overcome. Who knows. I just feel that the less aggressive attack on non-Christians is the best way to convert them.
Acting as a Christian, causing them to wonder and ask questions starts an interest. Suggesting that they pick up a Bible is the best way to teach them. Yes, they still need conversation and guidance, which is why I said to also suggest they find a church/clergyman they trust and are comfortable with. As with Swing dancing, you get people interested my showing them, talk to them about it, maybe give them a simple beginning lesson. But for those, like me, who don't feel comfortable about being the sole teacher, who feel they don't know enough yet about the dance to entrust the growth of a new dancer in their own care, the next step is to send them to a class or to a dancer that teaches privates that will be able to continue to teach that nes dancer correctly.
I don't think there is anything wrong with leading that person to Christianity if you yourself know enough about it and fully understand it. I know I am nowhere near that point. I, personally, feel much better about sending someone to one who has made it their life's work to study and teach about Christ and Christianity. I am just here to peak their interest and start the asking and searching. So maybe this is a mroe personal take on evangelism?
Some Song lyrics to maybe help describe how I feel about this topic... Thank you Nickle Creek.
What will be left when I’ve drawn my last breath
Besides the folks I’ve met and the folks who’ve known me
Will I discover a soul-saving love
Or just the dirt above and below me
I’m a doubting Thomas
I took a promise
But I do not feel safe
Oh me of little faith
Sometimes I pray for a slap in the face
Then I beg to be spared cause I’m a coward
If there’s a master of death
I bet he’s holding his breath
As I show the blind and tell the deaf about his power
I’m a doubting Thomas
I can’t keep my promises
Cause I don’t know what’s safe
Oh me of little faith
Can I be used to help others find truth
When I’m scared I’ll find proof that it’s a lie
Can I be led down a trail dropping bread crumbs
That prove I’m not ready to die
Please give me time to decipher the signs
Please forgive me for time that I’ve wasted
I’m a doubting Thomas
I’ll take your promise
You’ve always kept me safe
Oh me of little faith
Oh me of little faith
I wrote this a couple of months ago: "But this hope has a source, and we who are Christians have a calling to impart that to those around us. This doesn't mean preaching at people, but it does mean that if Christ is central in our lives, He will affect how we approach the world around us both in word and deed. The two are inseparable."
Jeremy, while I can definitely see your point in that you've had good experiences with tracts (particularly because you actually have a conversation with the the people you're giving them to), I dislike them immensely because they seem childish and oversimplified. So often it seems to me like taking the mystery, power, and beauty of the gospel and turning it into four spiritual laws. But if you're using them as a way to spark conversation, that is different than what I usually imagine in terms of passing tracts out at street corners--a tactic that many non-Christians complain about, a tactic that seems less than effective in the culture we live in. But it's also true that God can use anything, even the Jesus Film (another evangelistic tool that I harbor an intense dislike for, particularly when used in countries that are used to sophisticated media).
Jane, acting as a Christian is awesome, but in some sense I often question myself with what acting as a Christian entails. Is our faith so life-changing that people do wonder? Does it seem so enticing that it seems clearly better to be a Christian than not? Does it seem real? We will never be perfect, but if we really believe this stuff on an emotional, as well as intellectual, level, it should make us markedly different. We should be better people than we would be without Christ.
I don't know that picking up a Bible is always the best way to teach someone--it's a good way, and I won't downplay it, but there are other things that are also good, depending on the person and their needs. Reading CS Lewis is great for some, seeing faith lived out in community is good for all and perhaps the most effective (ah, this stuff actually makes a difference in how people treat each other), personal conversations are usually great, music or art touches another, etc. (Side note: most hymns were written to teach theology.) Will everyone become an expert in apologetics? No. But that doesn't take responsibility away from us--if you've had a wonderful experience in anything, you're bound to want to share it with lots of people, and you're also immanently qualified to share. Pastors are awesome, but they're not the only ones who are capable of talking about God--nor should they be. They're only human, and one human at that--we can't push them to do everything, because they only have so much time and one of the things you'll find most pastors doing is encouraging their congregations to take more leadership in this and other areas.
Another thought that I should stress: while we can point the way and talk about what we're excited and passionate about (because I hope we are excited and passionate), the burden of "converting" people is not on us. In the end, spirituality is between an individual and God. And God is quite capable of bringing people to himself, but it's an incredible blessing to be a part of what he's doing and to see him working.
I'm also inclined to think that the process of someone coming to Christ is more gradual than evangelistic culture would have us believe. It's not necessarily just one person hearing a sermon and praying the Sinner's Prayer. It's quite possible that a person has become a part of community where they've seen faith lived out, and one day realized that they believe too. Discipleship is an important process too--this stuff has to matter in the day-to-day, not just as a one-time prayer. Jesus' goal was less to make converts than to make sold-out disciples.
Amen sister :)
Well said.
Great comments in all of your posts, Dawn. I agree entirely... almost. As much as I hate actually doing it, I gotta stick with the tract thing.
I'm beginning to see why Jane and Nate speak so highly of you.
...Will you marry me? ;)
"I dislike [tracts] immensely because they seem childish and oversimplified. So often it seems to me like taking the mystery, power, and beauty of the gospel and turning it into four spiritual laws."
Yeah... I just learned about the four spiritual laws this summer... (grew up in a very non-mainline-Evangelical background). Though they communicate the message succinctly... I agree. Way over-simplified. It seems more geared toward making an empty committment when emotions are high or just out of sheer awkwardness, rather than as they are willing, through a loving process, introducing them into the Community of Saints, to be grafted in and raised up to be a "sold-out disciple" ready to take up their own cross. Change takes time. It rarely happens over night.
"Is our faith so life-changing that people do wonder?... if we really believe this stuff... it should make us markedly different. We should be better people than we would be without Christ."
Though I totally agree, and that is our goal in bringing others in to be 'partakers of the divine nature' with us in the Community, I feel like I rarely live up to that.... No. I know I don't. I feel more like Jane's Nickel Creek song.
It's not an easy process. It's friggin' hard, and it hurts. But that's Love. We endure through the pain and beyond Death. Love is stronger (yay, Song of Solomon). Just like in marriage. We're His Bride.
We are constantly growing, and progress is slow. Often discouraging.
Praise the Lord that at least in being a living witness to the Truth, we are not responsible for others' responses. Merely for our own. When we come to Him broken, hungering and thirsting after Him and what He desires for us, it's really just a matter of taking that first step through the doubt and fear to share with another that Love He has so joyfully shared with us, and He blesses you. That is how we learn to trust.
It's okay to be scared. Jesus trembled and sweat blood for fear of what was to come. But scorning the shame, He endured for the Joy set before Him, and lived though He died.
The only way to overcome that doubt it to just take that step and die, Jane. To whatever it is you fear. You don't have to start with the biggest one. But just take one step. Recover. Grow. Take another.... Transformation takes time.
Trust me. It's amazing. Terrifying, yes. But your God will not forsake you. Even though it may feel like it. When your heart cries, "Why are you forsaking me?!!" you know Life is near.
Dawn is near for you. You know you can call me anytime. I know Nate would be glad to lift you up. We're here for you, darling. All you ever need do is ask.
[hug]
...[big hug]
...All that said, I still kinda like the tracts, because people aren't expecting you to be interested in what they have to say, and actually having and honest and open discussion.
It catches them off guard, challenges their perception, and hopefully gives them a powerful, unexpected experience to get them thinking. "Tilling the soil" a little, if you will.
Besides, it's a great way to learn and get to know some really interesting people.
And... This post is way too long. So...
May God bless you all.
Wow, a marriage proposal on Jane's blog comments. This has got to be a first. :-p
Though I totally agree, and that is our goal in bringing others in to be 'partakers of the divine nature' with us in the Community, I feel like I rarely live up to that.... No. I know I don't.
You're not alone in that. I have all of this stuff much more clearly figured out in my head than I do in practice. I love poorly, and let's be honest, there are times that I'm not a good friend.
I still kinda like the tracts, because people aren't expecting you to be interested in what they have to say, and actually having and honest and open discussion. It catches them off guard, challenges their perception, and hopefully gives them a powerful, unexpected experience to get them thinking.
That's awesome, but I'd argue that you can do that without a tract. That it's better without one. If it's proven to be a useful tool for you, great, but in general it seems more helpful to train people to explain themselves without outside devices--and even better than that, train them to really listen to others.
That's awesome, but I'd argue that you can do that without a tract. That it's better without one.
Done that too...
But people get kinda wierded out when some random 6'2", 215lb, bearded, 25yr old kid just randomly walks up to them, shakes their hand with a smile, and tries to start a conversation with them on the street/at the carnival/fair.
It's just not effective. Regardless of how friendly I am, strangers for some reason are often intimidated by my size and deep voice.
Go figure.
Having the tracts at least lets them know up front why I'm there. Besides, that way they have at least some idea of what to expect, and are less likely to think I'm some kind of sinister creep.
In the group I go with, we train people to use the tract as just an attention-getter; an invitation to come and dialogue. The stuff we have in the tracts is often so ridiculous, if someone asks a question about it, I just apologize for the antics, and dismiss it. Except for the church's contact info on the back if they're interested. (That last part's not part of the training. I just hate tracts).
... if you knew me at all... you'd know how utterly absurd it is that I'm going to such lengths to defend tracts
[hangs head]
Though it may not sound like it, I really do hate them. If I hadn't had the experiences I've had with them, I'd be all 'bout burnin' 'em, and kindly asking people that I see handing them out to stop.
It really is awkward... but it's a great way to get comfortable with openly living/sharing your faith in other situations.
Personally, I very much prefer just hangning out at a coffee shop or in a living room over some tea/coffee/food/board games, and chatting. I'm not naturally an outgoing, 'talk to a stranger on the street' sort of guy. Quite the antithesis, actually.
I really don't know why I keep defending the tracts.... If the conversation hadn't felt as productive as it has, I'd feel sort of silly about all this....
That said, I think I've said all that I'm going to say. So... yeah.
It has been a lovely conversation, Dawn :)
I look forward to meeting you in person some day.
But.... you never gave me an answer ;)
0=)
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